So i stumbled my way onto one of the local Anglican churches websites here in Hobart today and was bemused by many things i read.
This is how they had branded their church
"All Saints...Anglican Worship in the Catholic tradition"
Now i could be misunderstanding their meaning, but I'm not exactly certain how you can have "Anglican Worship in the Catholic tradition"!
For starters (and i'm by no means an expert) i thought that the Anglican church was founded because the catholic tradition in the 1600s was corrupt, unbiblical and irrelevant (still in latin, even though no one in England spoke it). So i'm unsure as to why this is a claim to be proud of.
Secondly, i'm not sure a church is meant to exist purely, or even primarily, for the purpose of worship. Worship to me is an all of life thing. A person who only worships God on a Sunday and doesn't not "offer their body as a living sacrifice" surely does not please God. The church i think is meant to equip us for a life devoted to God and the gospel.
However, that is merely a secondary point. I am just struck by the bizareness of the statement, ""All Saints...Anglican Worship in the Catholic tradition", it seems to me something like saying "McDonalds...healthy eating in the unhealthly tradition". It just makes no sense. You might as well just be honest and say, "McDonalds... its unhealthy". Perhaps this church should say "All Saints Anglican Church...we are actually Catholics".
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ReplyDelete"Catholic is an adjective derived from the Greek adjective 'καθολικός / katholikos', meaning "general; universal" In the context of Christian ecclesiology, it has several usages...
Most Reformation and post-Reformation Churches use the term Catholic (sometimes with a lower-case c) to refer to the belief that all Christians are part of one Church, regardless of denominational divisions. It is in line with this interpretation, which applies the word "catholic"/"universal" to no one denomination, that they understand the phrase "One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church" in the Nicene Creed, the phrase "the catholic faith" in the Athanasian Creed, and the phrase "holy catholic church" in the Apostles' Creed.
i think that's the meaning of catholic that they're channeling here.
more importantly... all saints have a website!? go them!
I reckon your point's still valid Chris - it's ambiguous at best.
ReplyDeleteSo how are plans for the big move going?
Kath i'd like to be as positive as you but here are some quotes from the rest of their website that make me think they don't mean we are all one church under Christ.
ReplyDelete"These are among the gifts we bring into every Eucharist, offer them to God and draw strength to continue our journey as we feed on the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, truly present with us in this most holy sacrament."
"The Eucharistic vestments are worn. On Sundays the 7.45am Eucharist is said and without music, usually in the Lady Chapel; while the 10.15am is a Solemn Eucharist with the ceremonial of the Catholic tradition of Anglicanism, including incense. The Choir sings at the Solemn Eucharist on the fourth Sunday of the month and on some feast days."
http://www.allsaints-southhobart.org/
I like Kath's response. I might add that there is such a thing as Anglo-catholic worship - which is Anglican in that it is attached to the Church of England but that they recognize many of their practices to come from the Roman Catholic tradition. The biggest difference between the Catholic church and a church like All Saints is in Papal Authority but in a "service" they look quite similar to a Catholic church.
ReplyDeleteI agree with your assessment of what a church should be about but I submit that all of the things you listed fall under the category of worship. Church services, on the other hand, have long existed for the worship of the "saints" while the rest of the life of the church (small groups, youth ministries, etc.) functions as a means of equipping Christians to be little Christ's in the world.
I actually kind of like the idea of a church service being about worship rather than a chapter out of a self help book. It's difficult though, when you have to poor tons of energy into a service, to then equip Christians through other venues so we condense everything and make the "services" a mixture of worship and equipping when our Christian heritage (Both eastern and western traditions) tells us to focus more on the worship aspect during a service.
OK, sorry for the long response. When do you move to Melbourne?
poor = pour
ReplyDeletemany would argue that all saints is a lot more 'anglican' than baywest (sorry... i mean "the unnamed church")
ReplyDeletei have boxes for you chris
had i read further down in wiki i would have found a much more apt description of all saints...
ReplyDelete"Some use the term Catholic to distinguish their own position from a Calvinist or Puritan form of Reformed-Protestantism. These include High Church Anglicans, known also as "Anglo-Catholics", 19th century Neo-Lutherans, 20th century High Church Lutherans or evangelical-catholics and others."
i think matt visited all saints one week.
i'm not sure if i like your definition of the purpose of church... i think that church itself can be a place to be devoted to god and the gospel, and not just an equipping place.
Hey I saw your marker on pastor2youth.com... Greetings from the States! -jesse
ReplyDelete